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  • Grizz
    joellg PM on the way

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    joellg will do

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  • joellg
    Thank you for all the great info from your posts.

    Clarkstoragellc - I would like to get the excel sheets you mentioned in your post if possible. My email address is [email protected]


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  • Terry Campbell
    When you begin getting to the point of financing, find a bank that is familiar with storage, not just apartment financing. If you got the SBA route, get a bank that is very familiar with self-storage and the SBA so you can get accurate info on the SBA programs, terms, rates, etc.

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  • Tall Terri
    I haven't read all that you've posted but I have worked with facilities that have had or added parking for RV's etc. I'm located in Central Florida where all of the retirees like to keep their comfortable toys comfortable. At one facility he was going to make the parking spaces on grass. NOT recommended. Grass grows over the tires and can rot the rubber if the vehicle isn't moved often. Grass invites ants and other bugs too which can get into the RV's. Not that bugs won't go in if they are on cement. Just have seen less of them on cement or macadam.

    Put as many spaces at an angle that you can. He also didn't want to have long spaces. There are Hundreds of people with RV's who pull another vehicle behind, a work trailer, a trailer for a boat, a boat, etc. So when you make up the RV spaces, make them so they have options.

    These will sound like a no-brainer, but they didn't think this all the way out until near the end.

    Back in - 40' with enough room ahead to get around other parked vehicles.
    Pull Through - now is this going to be a 40' space that pulls through or a 40' space with a 30' space for the other vehicle they are pulling behind?
    Are they going to have to back the RV to move that trailer into another space (not recommended as most are NOT professional drivers)?
    Make the pull through two-spaces two INDIVIDUAL rentals in case the customer gets rid of the pulled vehicle, or they don't have one.

    | | | | | | | |
    | | | | | | | |
    | | | | | | | |
    | | | | | | | | Regular RV space approximately 40' long
    | | | | | | | |
    | | | | | | | | Regular parking space approximately 20' long. Two individual rentals, two spaces but still able to pull an
    RV and it's pull behind into a space.

    When we made the spaces at a slight angle, we also made the driveway one direction to in and out so they had an oblong piece of land that had a directional sign leading them in and out so the angles weren't a difficulty for anyone. We made 130 spaces out of approximately 3 acres of land.

    Another recommendation is to have specific RV spaces that have some "luxury" items. Covered RV Spaces with A small locker with a small lock that has to be drilled out to remove where they can store things they need when they go on trips. (Like store keys to the house that they aren't using or store extra TP etc.) A post with electricity for the trickle charger for the RV, on the same post with a lock and key that is given to the renter of the space. So when they go on a trip, they can lock up the electricity and no one can use it while they are gone.

    A dump station, an RV cleaning area or vehicle wash, maybe have the information for an RV specialist who can be on call to make repairs on the property. Perhaps a small area for vending machines - such as a "break room" with vending machines selling RV items instead of them having to stop at Walmart or a Camping store, they can get it from your vending machines. Things such as tubes that get lost or split, Seals that are used, toilet paper, paper towels, and vending machines with sodas and snacks.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Tall Terri; 20 August 2020, 02:22 PM.

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  • AngelaESSTX
    Just IMHO, never purchase a property that's flooded...especially in a small town. They will never forget which facility all of their belongings were ruined in and most likely will never trust the property again. Being from the coast of Texas and having been hit by several hurricanes, it's common for customers to ask if we've ever flooded. We can proudly say "No"...some will go on to tell us about the last facility they were at that flooded in Harvey, Ike, etc.

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    The way he does six month paid up front contracts is great. Even after a flood he would get his customers back. Also due to the timing of the six months most of his customers will re up.

    Read my my post on Broader discussion on finance. Determine your initial investment number based on the type of financing you want

    If you decide not to proceed let me know. I have some other people looking for an investment like this.

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  • joellg
    I actually went out to that property and talked to the guy for a long time. Its a little more than we wanted to start with, but again, we dont know much about this whole world yet. Everything he did there was "old school". Payments had to be mailed or in-person. It definitely was under water in the flood of 93. Its flooded 2 times in 18 years according to him. There is a gate, which sometimes doesnt work properly. There is lighting, but the electric comes from the 2 acre property (which I believe is another $450K). theres also a couple cameras, but again, comes from the 2 acre property. The 2 acre property has a gravel lot, and a building with 3 garage stalls and an apartment above it. He lets people rent that lot for selling RVs and boats monthly. Noone occupies the apartment. There also an electric fence. He runs at about 75% capacity, which I think isnt great. He actually mentioned how theres a smaller self storage down the street, and the guy runs all of it all online, and is at %100, but lacks the "personal service" like it was a bad thing. Dont get me wrong, the guy was a good guy, but for the asking price and how its run now, could be ran WAY better. Ill look at all this info you all have graciously given, and try to make sense of it with my 2 favorite peeps, and see if its worth looking at again. This is so much great info, thank you all for helping us get started.

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    Recommend you check out Loopnet Missouri Storage. Look at the RV/Boat facility for sale $945,000 in St Charles where your at.
    There is the 5 acre lot and then first right of refusal on another two acres. If you have already looked at it, lets look at it again with a different view.

    If you have already analyzed this property what were your figures and what did you come up with? If you haven't analyzed lets do a cost build up.

    Excel sheets not allowed to be attached. Just contact me.

    Cost approach: Take my project cost estimation and update the data based on your local info: Example;
    $250,000 5 acres level ground $50,000/acre
    $ 60,000 5 acres rock fill $12,000 per acre, levelled
    $ 40,000 5 acres fence
    $ 25,000 Automated gate
    $ 10,000 Saw something about electric fence
    $ 30,000 55 LED lights and lighting; w/ poles
    $ 30,000 Security system
    $ 25,000 Office/bathroom/storage
    $ 10,000 Misc equipment
    $480,000 Rough dirty estimate

    Revenue side:
    30 ft space is $50 with prepaid 6 month lease required. Use this as the average with 235 spaces at 90% occupancy:
    235 x $50 x 12 x .9= $126,900; validate against last 3 years, also current contracts. Challenge the rent rates with other places in the area.

    Electric- LED, $1,500 per month est.
    Property Tax- should be low since no structures $4,000/yr
    Insurance- should be low since no structures $4,000/yr
    Mowing/spraying/maint- you, zero.
    Rock- $2,000 replacement per year

    Expense estimate: $28,000

    Revenue before income tax= Call it $100,000

    Finance example:
    SBA 20 year term
    10% down= $95,000
    Interest rate 3%; 20 years; $850,000
    Do loan amort calc

    Actually partner bank will do half of the above loan, with loan amort on 20 year with 10 year adjustment, then 5 year intervals.

    Lets say $55,000 P/I per year for 20 years. Interest on the participating bank will probably go up at year 10.

    Again all of these are quick numbers you need to validate:
    A. You have $100,000 cash flow before taxes; with $55,000 P/I per year.
    B. Your asset is basically non-depreciable, thus it keeps its physical value.
    C. Revenue is 6 month leases paid up front.

    Deal Points:
    1. Do a Stupid Money test. Look at zoning in the general area and see how likely someone else could build this same property and take your business.
    2. Talk with your Accountant. See if you can do an Asset purchase versus a business purchase. Break out all of the depreciable assets so you can do an early write off to get the tax advantage. Have the deal weigh higher towards the depreciable assets and away from the land.
    3. Ask the owner that part of the price is a 5 year "Non Compete" agreement. Again talk with your accountant on how this can be written off and to quantify.
    4. Check on flooding; ask the county emergency mgt and neighbors.
    5. Go through all of the items on my 101 Checklist.
    6. Again this is quick and dirty. There is a big gap between Cost and revenue. Validate this. If true, again do the Stupid money test, potentially you could build for cheaper.
    7. Even if you can build, rent up phase for RV/Boat/vehicles is slower than Storage units, especially with existing competition. It might be worth $100,000 cash per year to pay for an existing revenue stream.
    8. Don't get too greedy. If the Cash flow works, even if the cost build is a lot lower take it. Explain it to the person the price is high relative to the cost to build, and ask for $300,000 no interest payment in 5 years on the balance. See if this is allowed with the bank or SBA before you ask for.
    9. See what the two acre sales lot is going for. Possibly put Storage on it. Because of your existing Boat and RV storage; see if the city/county will allow you to do Cargo Containers. These are cheaper, no property tax, and can be written off quickly for tax advantage. Recommend you stay away from traditional storage, there is a lot of competition in the area, unless your physical area has little.
    10. See if zoned for storage units, both properties.
    11. The two acres says something about sales. Don't buy that business if you want to be hands off; just the asset.
    12. Negotiate for the name and web. This should help on google.
    13. Don't see them on Sparefoot. The extra % occupancy will be pure profit. I would actually go with higher rates on Sparefoot than your street rate.

    This is probably a faster deal than you would like to do. Deals die on the vine. See how long this has been listed on Loopnet. Probably the sales price is a little high compared to building it. Make them happy and yourselves, with the no interest loan facet. They aren't going to earn that much out in the market with the money now anyways.

    Good luck.

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  • joellg
    Were in St. Charles, MO. And thanks for all this info, its alot to take in.

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    Do your return and profitability calcs. Parking has a very low return compared to storage. Not a very good first storage investment, unless you happened to find cheap wasteground, or cheap ground that already had hardsurface.

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    Customer Considerations:

    A. Pull through- The front, pull as far forward as possible, gives the person next to you an easier angle to turn into, from behind you. Align your front with the fronts of all other vehicles. Be courteous and leave enough room on the Driver side, so that RV can open their doors.

    B. Back to back parking- our locations are set up at 60 degree parking. Also, they are setup for the driver to back in on their side, so they can use the lot next to them for alignment. This way you only have one blind side on the right side backing in. Otherwise you have two blind sides.

    We have 20/30/40 foot parking at our location at 26763 Highway 34, Glenwood, IA. Each size has a different width due to how hard it is to park a longer unit at the very front angle of their turn in. 20’s- 10 wide; 30’s- 12 wide; 40’s- 15 wide. Although you could park an RV in any of these sizes, it is easier with a wider width to make the “front” turn. Or ask for an end parking spot, so you are doing a 90 degree parking, but have the whole drive way to back in with, without a turn.

    C. Canopy- same issues as others, depending on if 60 degree or 90 degree parking.

    D. Enclosed- Really a matter of width and depth. Keep in mind all measurements for storage are relative. For example: A 10 wide x 20 deep x 8 tall unit, with studs, roll up door and door jambs; is really 9 wide x 19 ft 6 inch deep x 7 foot tall. Also if you have a 20 ft boat or Camper, its really 22/23/24 ft depending on Propeller, bumper or front hitch.

    E. Surface- Rock or hard surface (concrete/asphalt); If on rock/asphalt put your tongue leg or stabilizer pads on wider pads to spread the weight out. These pads are needed on Asphalt since in hot weather they will sink into the asphalt.

    F. Pest control- we put mouse bait out along the fence lines and under the units, mow excess weeds and grass. You should put both rodent and bug control in your unit. Dispose of all food sources, for long term storage. If you want to be really diligent with pest control, don’t park next to overhead lights. They attract bugs at night and then mice underneath. Put scented drier sheets in all compartments and rooms. Open all cabinets and doors.

    G. Stabilizers- if doing long term storage put you stabilizers down. Most parking is in an open area and the units can rock and move with the wind. This will also help with taking pressure off your tires so they last longer.

    H. Security- Put a lock on the hitch. Although you are in a secure location, RV’s and trailers are the easiest storage to break into or take without notice. Recommend you put in motion sensors or GPS tracking security. Check your vehicle at least twice a month. Most Security systems only maintain footage for 2 weeks due to camera memory capacity.

    I. Propane Fuel Tanks- disconnect and store if leaving for long term storage.

    J. Electronic Lifts- disconnect the battery if leaving for long term storage.

    K. Insurance- most storage unit insurance policies do not cover vehicles. Keep your insurance, just have them adjust your automobile to fewer miles or just comprehensive coverage. Wind, Flood, tornado, Hail, or third party damage or theft can still occur. Traditional insurance coverage, RV’s normally stay a flat rate throughout the year, thus you will still need to maintain full coverage. Or, if you seek out a specific RV or rec vehicle insurance company, you can move in and out of winterization rates.

    L. Pricing- use a 30 foot vehicle as an example:
    -In the country about a $1 per foot on rock.
    -With Paved access and parking spot, this might run $60 to $90
    - Enclosed parking this will cost about $120 to $170 for a 30 foot.
    - Enclosed parking for a 50 foot, might cost $225 to $350.

    The price extremes are the cost of the concrete/asphalt road and the storage bay. Also the longer the unit the price goes up significantly because it takes more driveway width to park and the type of door changes in both size and type (remote operated). A 50 ft RV will require about a 70 foot wide driveway to back in.

    We are only addressing the long term Parking portion of storage. Other items are specific to each vehicle such as water clean out, Tire/window shades, etc.

    Quick non Parking list:
    Wheel/tire covers; Vehicle cover.
    Remove and store your tires.
    Store with a full fuel tank to prevent condensation
    Add fuel stabilizers
    Place RV completely off the ground to prevent flat spots on your tires, if left for a long time.
    Cover your HVAC, skylights, vents and windows to prevent exposure to sun and breakdown.
    Boats leave your plug out, whether covered or not.

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    Parking info:
    Surface, Canopy, Enclosed.

    Just talking Surface.

    Have run the numbers about 10 times on Enclosed, but I would have to charge $225 to $350 per month and don't have that market here. Have only seen one location on the interstate near Oklahoma City that had that market ($150,000 to $500,000 RV's) and they were full. They have a lot of $1mm homes and lakes nearby. You have to do Concierge services for that market. Battery charger, turn fridge on before trips, Dump station, Concierge parking service, Tire/Oil/etc check, Big drive ways, electric in each unit, etc.

    Canopy, I have seen in Texas. Cant say much, haven't researched it.

    I have been in two other models. Old welding shop with 40 foot roofs. Spots are "crammed in". They park and unpark for you.
    Another, is winter only. You go "in" the fall and everyone comes "out" the same time in the spring. They also have a lot of outside spaces. Both of these models were full.

    Attached (guess you can't upload Excel files) is an Inventory list of an exact 2 acre parking lot we have. Also the row configuration. See cut and past below.

    Might not apply if your on concrete, which would be great, but I'll throw these out anyway.
    Its on rock. Use 1 1/2 inch with "Fines". Cost about $20,000 for rock delivered.
    Put Geogrid underneath, so no potholes after 4 years. Otherwise, you need to put a base of 3 inch rock first, then the 1 1/2 with fines. Be careful if you blade snow.
    Payback is about 12 years.
    Not the best use of the land, but didn't need it at the time for storage.
    Put at 60 degree angle, otherwise you get a lot less spaces, since your driveways have to be wider. Example: If you do 90 degrees parking on a 50 foot space, you might need a 70 foot driveway. Also 60 degrees makes it easy for the driver. Also put the 60 degrees turn on the driver side window so they can see the turn.
    Put a Wire and posts down the middle of the shared back to back parking so vehicles stay on their side. Used other posts, stakes, number signs (reflective) to define each space.
    Mix. Went with even surface area for 20/30/40 foot spaces. Did not do any 50's for large RV's. Where we are at, most RV's are in the $10,000 to $70,000 range. Actually worked out pretty good. The 20's have a few vacancies.
    Price $20/$30/$40. This is in a 10,000 population community with about 4 no wake lakes to the East within 60 miles. Prices could be higher, but= No city restrictions on vehicles, which would increase your market. Plus we are in the country, where you can find a friend to park.
    Run light and security camera poles first.
    Definitely put a "License Plate" specific camera at a narrow point and other cameras and lights at that bottleneck. Our spot is fenced off from the Storage location, with one access point, no gate there. Recommend your NVR has a timeline with Red markers for motion on your cameras.
    Layout and capacity really depends on the lot shape. The same two acres, could probably get about 30% more if it was a rectangle versus a square, due to less turnarounds.

    This is a relaxed layout, I did not try to cram the spaces in.
    Rows and Road Configuration
    A Road B C Road D E Road F
    This layout is on a 2 acre square.
    Roads are all the same width.
    All rows are set at 45 degree angles
    Unit Description Row:
    G001 1x20x1 A
    G002 1x20x1 A
    G003 1x20x1 A
    G004 1x20x1 A
    G005 1x20x1 A
    G006 1x20x1 A
    G007 1x20x1 A
    G008 1x20x1 A
    G009 1x20x1 A
    G010 1x20x1 A
    G011 1x20x1 A
    G012 1x20x1 A
    G013 1x20x1 A
    G014 1x20x1 A
    G015 1x20x1 A
    G016 1x20x1 B
    G017 1x20x1 B
    G018 1x20x1 B
    G019 1x20x1 B
    G020 1x20x1 B
    G021 1x20x1 B
    G022 1x20x1 B
    G023 1x20x1 B
    G024 1x20x1 B
    G025 1x20x1 B
    G026 1x20x1 B
    G027 1x20x1 B
    G028 1x20x1 B
    G029 1x20x1 B
    G030 1x20x1 B
    G031 1x30x1 C
    G032 1x30x1 C
    G033 1x30x1 C
    G034 1x30x1 C
    G035 1x30x1 C
    G036 1x30x1 C
    G037 1x30x1 C
    G038 1x30x1 C
    G039 1x30x1 C
    G040 1x30x1 C
    G041 1x30x1 C
    G042 1x30x1 C
    G043 1x30x1 C
    G044 1x30x1 C
    G045 1x30x1 C
    G047 1x40x1 D
    G048 1x40x1 D
    G049 1x40x1 D
    G050 1x40x1 D
    G051 1x40x1 D
    G052 1x40x1 D
    G053 1x40x1 D
    G054 1x40x1 D
    G055 1x40x1 D
    G056 1x40x1 D
    G057 1x40x1 D
    G058 1x40x1 D
    G059 1x40x1 D
    G060 1x30x1 E
    G061 1x30x1 E
    G062 1x30x1 E
    G063 1x30x1 E
    G064 1x30x1 E
    G065 1x30x1 E
    G066 1x30x1 E
    G067 1x30x1 E
    G068 1x30x1 E
    G069 1x30x1 E
    G070 1x30x1 E
    G071 1x30x1 E
    G072 1x40x1 F
    G073 1x40x1 F
    G074 1x40x1 F
    G075 1x40x1 F
    G076 1x40x1 F
    G077 1x40x1 F
    G078 1x40x1 F
    G079 1x40x1 F
    G080 1x40x1 F
    G081 1x40x1 F
    G082 1x40x1 F
    G083 1x40x1 F
    G084 1x40x1 F
    G085 1x40x1 F
    G086 1x40x1 F
    G087 1x40x1 F
    G088 1x40x1 F
    G089 1x40x1 F

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  • Clarkstoragellc
    Startup checklist 101. Sorry website doesn't allow Excel file uploads or attachments.
    Storage Startup Checklist 101
    Response to Zagreb, Croatia startup
    1 Why Do Storage?
    2 Why Storage? Why you? I’ll do a separate Topic. Don’t know your financial’s, but you will outstrip your collateralization fast. Develop a relationship with someone you trust and bring them along for the ride. Preferably an Apartment developer. They don’t have to invest in the first project, but you will need them later. Make sure this a solid relationship, otherwise they will cut you out once your successful.
    3 Market/Demand:
    4 Market size See post, if your the “first”, then you don’t care. You have more than enough Market, in a 800,000 Pop city.
    5 Outside or climate controlled? Let your search and “deal” decide. Look for both an outside Land acquisition or an old industrial building. If you get a large enough building, finish it out in stages.
    6 Market location Seek your higher income areas first. Pick along the A2, A3, A4 corridors first. Stay away from the mountains. Do several small locations, no smaller than 1 hectare. Once you have the experience and Financial support, go for a Climate controlled location in an old neighborhood that is high income or rebuilding itself.
    7 Zoning See post
    8 Site location Have several searches and deals going at once, most of them won’t pan out for the price you are willing to pay. This way you “can walk away”. This gives you negotiating power.
    9 Site acquisition
    10 Financing: See “Topic”
    11 Financing-construction Find a banker who knows Apartment building construction
    12 Financing- rent up stage Same as above. You want “interest only” and not principal for a portion of the rent up period.
    13 Financing- long-term If your going to grow, unless you have significant capital at your disposal, find a future business partner.
    14 Business Model I’ll clean up and post one of my spreadsheets later.
    15 Construction: Use local knowledge/availability
    16 Permits
    17 Building type
    18 Building manufacturer
    19 Contractor
    20 Day to day:
    21 Rental Contract Post a “Topic” on this Forum and ask for some copies sent to you.
    22 Rental Rates Zagreb’s GDP per capita is $19,132 versus where I live $60,246 metro area of 1mm. Thus if I say a 10 x 20 “Foot, not meter” unit is $120, then yours would be around $40. Making this simplistic. Get on Sparefoot and pick a US city similar to Zagreb and pick out prices for 10 x 20/15/10/5. Then take 1/3 of that for your price in US $, then convert. Recommend you don’t use this as your starting prices; go after a richer neighborhood and charge higher prices.
    23 Auction rules Post a “Topic” on this Forum and ask for some copies sent to you.
    24 Security system Situational, work with your local security firm.
    25 Fencing situational
    26 Self Service or manager situational
    27 Management software Since the world is internet based, see if you can use one of the Storage management softwares in Zagreb. Do not do this on a spreadsheet or paper. You need to develop a system to grow with.
    28 Marketing:
    29 Website check ClarkstorageLLC, and others on this forum. Take the best from each and make a template, for a better one.
    30 SEO management Since your the only one, you just need Google Map Pins and build up your google ranking under key words.
    31 Marketing Software Sparefoot or similar in your market area. If none exist for Storage, seek out Apartment, home, AIRBNB, Craigslist sites. If you have Craigslist, put an add out there with your offering and price. Different sizes and prices. Get feedback.
    32 Marketing Something you probably already know.
    33 Social Media Something you probably already know.
    34 Insurance: Leave to you for local knowledge
    35 Business
    36 Renters
    Sundry: Leave to you for local knowledge
    Property taxes
    Legal system

    Leave a comment:

  • Clarkstoragellc
    Some info: Estimation worksheet.
    Note: This is written for an individual owner or investor. The Big organizations already have their templates and methods. And will be doing Climate controlled.
    This is an example, for discussion only.
    A. Project Cost estimate from ground up.
    B. P/L revenue stream
    C. Valuation Buy/Sell
    Adjust all of the above to your local market and situation.
    A. Self Storage Project Worksheet
    Drive up Storage
    Land $200,000 4 acres at $50,000/acre
    Survey $7,000 Site, elevation and building layout
    Fence $30,000 Black chainlink
    Gate system $25,000 Automated rolling 20ft
    Engineer if needed; $30,000 to $60,000
    Dirt work $15,000 Slight roll, no dirt brought on site
    Building demo if needed, $15,000 to $60,000
    Electrical- site $7,000 building lighting and office if needed, LED.
    Electric poles if needed; $2,000 per pole. First is free if nearby.
    Security $10,000
    Storm drains if needed; $50,000 to $150,000
    Water if needed; $5,000 just plumbing
    Water line ?? if an extension could be $10,000 up to $150,000
    Fire Hydrant if needed, $3,000
    Sewer if needed: $5,000 plumbing
    Sewer Line if needed; $10,000 up to ????
    Buildings $1,180,800 Phase 1 2 acres
    Office if needed, plain storage unit 20x30; $25,000 insulated.
    Office setup if needed, $5,000- computers, printers, HVAC, frig, cabinets, etc
    Footings if needed. ??????
    Gravel if needed, ?????
    Asphalt if needed, ?????
    Concrete $676,133 6 inch Cubic yards, framed, poured, sawn,
    Retention Pond if needed, part of dirt work cost, less land for buildings
    Landscaping $5,000 I like trees and bushes. Less sterile
    Road Sign $15,000 For highway 55mph billboard sign
    Total $2,170,933

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