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  • #31
    @G please take the time to read above and digest it. Not from your standpoint but from others. Do not agree with it, but understand it. It will make you a better advocate for your position.

    Fears- I don't want my brother or brother in law to have to take on Armor piercing bullets or machine guns. Plain and simple. Also these have no place in weaponry to protect home or family. See bottom of page, so we stay on "Focused Effort".

    Let show a different approach on the topic. I always like to use a push "and" pull method on a position.

    Again, keep in mind it is not about Gun Rights, its about Votes.

    a. Take a sledge hammer against another persons opinion. 1. You will not add another vote, that you don't already have. You reduce your position, because voters in the middle can see your evaluating the situation from a very limited perspective. They are less likely to vote with you., 2. When you force yourself on another person that is either called Rape if sexual in nature or Dictatorship/Anarchy if political. I'm a proud American also, but those two things don't represent my America.
    b. Go teach gun classes to Boy/Girl Scouts.
    c. I liked @P's taking the time to bring two Ladies into gun ownership. They will sell gun rights better than 100 guys swinging sledgehammers on a topic. Have a Ladies Night Only once a month at the Gun club.
    d. Propose gun ownership laws. Example: Are there any Mental or medicinal situations you don't approve having guns be a part of.

    Think of all the press that create negative gun rights discussions in the media. Church, Concert, School, basically crowd shootings. You can communicate on forums or have conversations but you will either be talking with people that already agree with you, or if they don't agree with you, they will turn you off. The media has more communication power than you or 1,000,000 of you. So don't play to their strength. Go after their weakness.

    No shooting, is no news. No Gun news, No Gun right discussion.

    I will make an assumption either you or your friends like to hunt. I love to hunt. The part I enjoy the most is not shooting the buck, but planning days or hours in advance which way that animal is going to go and increasing my odds from 5% to 10% of being in a position to get that buck. Look at the Media and do the same thing.

    Develop a crowd Safety approach.
    a. Develop a crowd Safety approach or permit system, doesn't matter what level of government you are at, city, county, state or federal. In this day and age, if you start it, the rest (Federal, State, Concerts, Schools, etc will have to follow). The old pebble in a pond ripple effect.
    b. Make a matrix. 1. Down the first column put the types of assemblies. 2. Second column put type of assembly- building, open air, etc. 3. Third- number of people attending., 4. Types of concern- shooting, bombs, air, water, structural, exit or herd injury, etc., 5. Advance and concurrent strategies., 6. Response time- disregard., 7. Soft versus Hard target communication., 8. Identify the shooter or perp before the incident. Brutal- What has this got to do with news or votes? Less deaths, less news.
    c. Develop Mandatory Emergency first Aid training- Most people don't die of the gunshot immediately, they die due to not receiving immediate first aid. 1. Make the area safe., 2. Call for help., 3. Stop blood flow., 4. Check air flow and throat passage., 5. Feel for pulse., 6. Start CPR as needed. Current recommendation is just chest pumping 100 times per minute or 2 breaths then 30 compressions ongoing. Brutal- What has this got to do with news or votes? Less deaths, less news.

    My brother visited me, just after one of the school shootings and at the time I was on the School Board. Asked him to drive over and look at our school and listen to my thoughts. When I got done, he asked me this question:

    "Do you want to stop the shooter or prevent the shooting?" Don't think he heard a thing I said. But then I "heard" him.

    You are probably saying, where is Active Shooter training, where is Response time discussion. These are all False/Positives. Makes you feel good, but doesn't do anything. Most deaths occur within 2 1/2 minutes of the incident starting. I live in a town of 5,000. We are very unusual. We probably have 150 policeman and fireman living in our community. Probably have about 500 ex military. Even with all of these resources, they can't respond in 2 1/2 minutes from the start. Brutal- What has this got to do with news or votes? Less deaths, less news.

    Take one of the above you agree with or one of your own ideas and push that. Attack the deaths, attack the news.

    Remember No Gun news, is No Gun right discussion.


    For non-gun owner's benefit on home defense. 1. Use what you are comfortable with., 2. Inside the house preferably use a Shotgun, less chance of malfunction. The jacking of the chamber will make most people run. Your first two shells should be bird shot. Close quarters this will do the trick. Also since you have drywall, less chance of injuring your family in other rooms. Next shells, should be 00 buckshot and not slugs. Even if your an expert marksman, your excited. You haven't been training in your house to shoot. Its dark, etc. Greater chance to hit the target with buckshot., 3. Once the intruder is outside, buckshot should be fine. It doesn't go that far and becomes less accurate/lethal further away. The further you get away from your house, the more it becomes murder on your part., 4. Assault rifles and machine guns, have no place in your home defense. Their bullets not only pierce your walls, but your neighbors walls. They are for longer distances, assault and accuracy.

    Now come the barrage of "but's: a. You can use a pistol, if you are more comfortable with it, and for home defense have bullets built for that., b. But on TV and in real life all the SWAT and others use Assault rifles or pistols when they go into a building. They are going for accuracy. You are going for trauma to the intruder and recognizing you are probably not the best shot in an emergency. A slender, high speed bullet going through a person does not stop them. Also Law Enforcement are using special bullets inside a building that will expand on impact causing more trauma to the intruder and also less chance of exiting the building.

    The key thing to remember from this home defense discussion is: "I was in fear for my family's and my life". Say it over and over. Then be quiet.

    Remember to keep hunting and go out and see the world. The US is a great place.


    • #32

      You continue to go back to your emotional outburst while I try to explain the Bill of Rights, you're proving my point!!

      But to respond to your emotional concerns about your brother, please name three instances where police have encountered legally owned full auto or armor piercing ammo in your lifetime. The are 10's of thousands of legally owned full auto weapons on the streets (millions of armor piercing rounds), if they were bad and evil, as you say, there would be a blood bath every 5 minutes....

      Your brother is more likely to die from medical malpractice than interaction with a bad guy. Have you tried to ban medical professionals? Those are the facts. AND just about any .22 caliber bullet (handgun or rifle) along with most rifle bullets, will penetrate a vest. You have no idea what you're talking about

      Back to the Bill of Rights. It has NOTHING to do with hunting, collecting or any other entertaining use of firearms. It has to do with The People having the ability to protect themselves from tyrannical govt.. That means The People have the right to own the same weapons as the govt.

      Your "sidetrack" tells me how little you actually know about firearms and ballistics. What is a slender bullet . Civilians have the same access to the same ammo as LEO's what are you talking about there? I've shot with LEO's and MANY of them are terrible shots. They only practice when the ammo is free and therefore their skills are never developed much less maintained.

      Check your stats about bad guys with guns. The majority of the time they choose "gun free zones" as target areas, such as malls, churches and schools. The reason they make that choice is because there is little to no chance of meeting any resistance. And in every case the bad guy is stopped when a good guy with a gun shows up. Which reminds me of two instances where bad guys opened fire inside a church, one was stopped when parsons returned fire with handguns and the other when a patron returned fire with an AR15.

      So now you say this is about votes, which means pandering to one side or the other while trying to stay in the middle, right? The American people have heard those lies for decades and that is one of the main reasons why Trump was elected. And will be re-elected. Because he won't pander to any side, he states his views and you either agree with enough of them to vote for him or you dont.

      With great freedom comes even greater responsibility

      I have presented facts, can you do the same?


      • #33
        Emotional. Read back through and tell me how many expletives, adjectives, or inappropriate remarks I have made. I gave you two examples where I personally would see gun control. This is out of 99.99% of the issues where we agree. Again. This is not about Gun rights or control. Its about maintaining enough votes to keep Gun Rights. Your assuming I want to pander or buy votes and meet in the middle somewhere, because that is your mindset on opposing views. Read what I am saying or ask me a question. Your right, only two of my brother's co workers have died on duty. He has a greater chance of dying from medical malpractive.

        Slippery slope approach. You want to have the right to own the same weapons as the government. That means your okay with any citizen owning any weapon the government has because, they will show the same level of understanding and judgment as you would with those same weapons. Look on TV and tell all of the crowds you want to give them those kinds of weapons and, please agree with you.

        You will note above on my "Sidetrack" it was for Non Gun owners. Do you want to spend time telling them the difference between a 223, 7mm, 410 gauge or 50 cal. I think they can understand a "Slender" bullet.

        What stats are you referring to? Honest question.

        Did you read my recommendation for Crowd safety approach? The examples you gave are great, but they just "happened". I don't want them to just "happen". Again, I am agreeing with you, but a different approach that can be duplicated across the country.

        Do you have a plan. Please put it out there. Just saying never, and your wrong to someone who agrees almost entirely with you, doesn't protect any right.


        • #34
          Your entire argument is based on emotions, thats different than using foul language in a post. Every decision you make is made to make you happy and not based on facts.

          Slippery slope!! We (Gun owners and Constitution loving Americans) have been losing our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, one law at a time, for centuries. How dare you try to make the argument thats not what you're trying to do now because your law will solve all the issues regarding your fear of guns related to your family.... All I want to do is go back to the way it was when the Bill of Rights was written - Shall Not Be Infringed!!

          In the firearm world, the term "slender bullet" does not exist and I (we) dont have a clue what you're talking about. But you expect non gun owners to understand that term? Why dont you tell us what it means, what is a slender bullet and why is it more deadly than other bullets?

          The stats I'm referring to are mass shootings.

          Crowd safety? Are you kidding me? People have stolen and driven trucks into crowds to kill them. A guy rode his bicycle through a crowd while slashing everyone within reach with a long knife. One guy locked the doors of a school house and then set it on fire with all the children inside. One guy sat in a hotel room while shooting down into a crowd of people. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to protect people from crazy people and restricting my rights only gives the crazies more power because I can no longer defend myself.

          You cannot accept that doing nothing is the best thing to do because you are wrapped up in your emotions and doing "something" will show you really care. If anything is to be done its to rescind all the gun laws on the books. Have mandatory firearm safety and live fire training in every grade of school and teach respect for the weapons, Constitution and Bill Of Rights.

          And lastly, Please explain what part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" you dont undersand, I'll do my best to enlighten you


          • #35
            I agree with all but #7.
            Wife and I have been married since we were 18 and 19. Had a child around the same time.
            I do understand it is not for everyone.
            The key for us was HARD Work and keep moving ahead.
            I have only had 4 Paycheck jobs in my life
            Dishwasher at 15
            Mechanic and dishwasher at 16
            Paint Maker
            Each job was a stepping stone up not a straight and level path.
            I was self employed as a Painting contractor at age 28 and built a Self Storage facility at 35.
            All with NO college education.
            I did go to Berks VO-Tech in High School to be the above mentioned mechanic.

            We will be married 38 years in July and I could not be happier.
            I would do it all over again.
            Joe Krezdorn
            DAK Self Storage
            Leesport, PA 19533


            • #36
              @G and @P, thank you very much, and this is sincere, for being so open in your discussions. Like my Speech teacher said, it is always helpful to understand, not necessarily agree, with a different view or approach. Luckily, we agree on Gun Rights 99.99%; but have different views on maintaining them in a Democratic Republic form of government. We are all three headed towards the same objective, just choosing to take different paths.

              Other readers, I appreciate, your not joining this conversation. It is a trying time, when one misstep of a word on the internet could cause you to get into trouble or loose your credit on a topic such as Storage. If you found this conversation boring or trying, hope you turned the "Channel" off.
              Thank you.


              • #37
                Shutting this thread down.


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